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UPDATE: New site name chosen!

This site is now "Code Golf & Coding Challenges"

Thank you all so much for participating in this discussion!


As we're designing the site, we are considering the name and how the logo/wordmark of the site will look (be excited, that means we're actually in-progress!!!). In our discussions internally, there was a question of what y'all actually call this site. As an outsider, I tend to refer to it as "PPCG" but I think a lot of people call it "Code Golf". I'm not sure many people write out the full name in most cases because of the length.

So, as part of this site redesign, since the design and its logo will be your branding for (hopefully) forever we want to ask you to choose:

  1. Keep Programming Puzzles & Code Golf
  2. Change to Code Golf

There is a third option - a new name entirely - but this comes with a lot of complications such as changing the site URL and completely rebranding the site which will delay this process quite a bit (6 months, probably) as it will require a lot of internal work and discussion (see the many-year process for switching Programmers to Software Engineering). Because "Code Golf" is pretty commonly used already and it's the URL for the site currently, the thinking is that it won't be too much of a change for the site identity.

Before you start deciding, I'd like to bring up a few thoughts I've had while talking with mods on this site and our design team:

Design concerns

I'm starting here with what may be the most pragmatic of the concerns and what brought this discussion up on our end... we have about 400x70 px (width, height) to work with for both a logo and wordmark for our site. Fitting "Programming Puzzles & Code Golf" (31) in that space can be done - it's definitely an option - but it will likely limit our choices as we balance fit with design.

Some examples of sites with long names (which are all at least slightly shorter than PPCG):

Geographic Information Systems (30)
Geographic Information Systems logo and wordmark

Theoretical Computer Science (28)
Theoretical Computer Science logo and wordmark

English Language Learners (25)
English Language Learners logo and wordmark

What I see is that we've solved the long name problem in the past by either using narrower fonts or less spacing between letters, or putting the site name on two lines. Both of these solutions have the effect of making the wordmark seem a bit scrunched but, importantly, they don't look bad.

Oh, and if you're wondering about the max width - because of the responsive design, on mobile, we need to support phones as narrow as about 320px wide. If a wordmark is wider than that it will have to get sized down to fit on those screens without going off the side. A small amount of this looks fine, since the viewing distance is shorter but too much and it can start to be more difficult to read.

Scope & Branding

I've poked around a bit and talked to your mods a little and what I've found in the past is that there's been some discussion about the site name here for reasons of scope accuracy and branding. This seemed to be a big part of the discussion in 2015 about the site name.

The current top three choices there are:

  1. No change - 39 (+59/-20)
  2. Code Sport - 38 (+51/-13)
  3. Code Golf - 31 (+45/-14)

Now, it's been a few years since that was posted and I'm not sure that the points about programming puzzles vs code golfing discussed in some of the answers are still accurate. What I do see is that the recent voting on that post indicates that the more recent votes (since 2017) are split about 50/50 on keeping PPCG (+6/-5) but unanimous on shortening to Code Golf (+11) or changing to Code Sport (+8) and Code Games seems to be gaining popularity, too (+11).

I do understand the concerns about site name descriptiveness. It's a complicated issue that is unlikely to ever have a perfect solution. As they say, naming is hard. Other sites on the network have to deal with this; Arqade isn't only about arcade games, Movies & TV isn't a place to ask questions about setting up your television. Bitcoin (for now, anyway) accepts questions about many different cryptocurrencies in addition to Bitcoin specifically.

There will always be a struggle with balancing scope with a descriptive site name, which is why I think so many companies choose non-descriptive words for their company names - and we've done it in a few places like Seasoned Advice.

So, considering the above - and anything else you've been thinking about...

What should this site be called and why?

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    \$\begingroup\$ "Code Golf" is the largest group of questions here, but certainly not the only. So while codegolf makes sense for the subdomain, having a longer full site name makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure if "puzzles" is the right name though. Perhaps "Programming Challenges and Code Golf". I think of "puzzle" as more of a "item that has already been done that I have to figure out" as opposed to a "challenge" being more like "come up with your own solution". \$\endgroup\$ – manassehkatz Apr 28 at 4:17
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    \$\begingroup\$ Although "Programming Challenges and Code Golf" is even longer, it's probably the best name in terms of descriptiveness. Making progress on the name will likely be mostly in distilling that. \$\endgroup\$ – Unrelated String Apr 28 at 4:40
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    \$\begingroup\$ For some perspective, code golf has accounted for 91% of non-closed questions since 2017. \$\endgroup\$ – xnor Apr 28 at 4:48
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    \$\begingroup\$ @UnrelatedString Thanks for the support! I'll turn my comment into an answer and we'll see what happens. \$\endgroup\$ – manassehkatz Apr 28 at 4:53
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    \$\begingroup\$ So you're asking us to golf the name? :) \$\endgroup\$ – flawr Apr 29 at 12:56
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    \$\begingroup\$ Related: Subtitles' post \$\endgroup\$ – Adám May 7 at 21:36
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Catija since only a maximum of 4 featured posts can show in the side panel, the follow on featured question does not show up. Would it make sense to remove the featured tag from this one so the newer one will show up instead? \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 7 at 21:58
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    \$\begingroup\$ The original post looking for site design ideas has already been unfeatured. The two should swap places... eventually. It's always a bit wonky. \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 7 at 22:00
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    \$\begingroup\$ Ah - caching... \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 7 at 22:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ You should just call it Code Golf because almost every other type of question gets deleted as too vague. Open ended puzzles ("draw a picture of...") might be entertaining and interesting to a lot of people, but realistically they just get deleted by the powers that be, so its kind of misleading to have the word Puzzles in the title. \$\endgroup\$ – don bright May 9 at 6:13

13 Answers 13

61
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Code Golf with a subtitle

The site's main purpose is code golf, but not its only purpose (really, this is a site about competitive programming in general, it's just that code golf is by far the most common sort of competition for good reason). It would make sense to have the name of "code golf" emphasised in the title, but to include a subtitle on the word mark to make it clear that the site isn't (yet) entirely consumed by shortening byte counts. (The readability of the subtitle would be comparatively unimportant; people would still get mostly the right idea from just the title.)

My best idea so far is

Code Golf

and other programming challenges

Admittedly, CGAOPC is pretty terrible as an acronym, so the site's title would still have to be "Code Golf", but I think that'd look fairly good on a wordmark and make it clear what the site is about. Code Golf works fine as a name within Stack Exchange; it's only outside it that the name has trouble referring to a particular site (just like, say, softwareengineering.stackexchange.com has "Software Engineering" as its wordmark, but is named "Software Engineering Stack Exchange" in its <title> as "Software Engineering" would be too ambiguous as the name of a website).

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    \$\begingroup\$ I think renaming the site to Code Golf and keeping a small clarification in the logo is the best of both worlds. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis Apr 29 at 16:09
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    \$\begingroup\$ Is "and other programming challenges" the subtitle we're voting on here, or is it just an idea for a subtitle we'd determine later? I ask because I think this particular subtitle is too clunky and don't want to get stuck with it by mistake. \$\endgroup\$ – xnor Apr 29 at 18:19
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    \$\begingroup\$ @xnor: My intention was to allow people to suggest subtitles using other answers on this post, and giving that as a default if nobody suggested one. It seems like we've run up against the usual Stack Exchange issue that it's hard to get an actual consensus / clear answer via Meta, rather than a range of understanding about opinions. (For example, the answers here seem to be broadly in favour of a particular concept – titling the site with Code Golf and ensuring that this is clarified within the interface – and yet the details are still in flux. Maybe we need a separate post for that.) \$\endgroup\$ – ais523's temporary account Apr 30 at 3:33
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    \$\begingroup\$ Perhaps a secondary vote would be necessary to decide the subtitle \$\endgroup\$ – Jo King May 3 at 2:42
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    \$\begingroup\$ .... so... is the idea that everywhere the site name is listed, it'd just be "Code Golf" - the site selector, full sites list, etc... but on the top banner, it'd have this subtitle? \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 3 at 21:08
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    \$\begingroup\$ Why not keep this and the original name? "Code Golf" as the title and "& Programming Puzzles" as the subtitle (similar to the ELL SE). Also it could be reverse and keep it as the exact same name, just with a proper format. \$\endgroup\$ – Belhenix May 4 at 1:57
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Belhenix: because the site isn't about programming puzzles any more; lots of people want to move away from that name because it's misleading new users as to what's ontopic here. (There's some debate about whether programming-puzzle posts are disallowed altogether or just rare. However, the most recent non-closed post that's has the programming puzzle tag correctly applied to it was posted on February 26, and the next-most recent was posted in November 2016, so those posts are at least rare enough that mentioning them in the site title would be highly misleading.) \$\endgroup\$ – ais523's temporary account May 4 at 8:54
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Catija: Yes, I think that's the idea. \$\endgroup\$ – ais523's temporary account May 4 at 8:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ I upvoted for the idea of a subtitle, rather than for this particular example. I'd prefer "and code contests" \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 5 at 11:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ Or maybe "and other code contests" \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 5 at 11:06
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Catija Yes, the idea is that the subtitle would only appear in the top banner. But, as per the comments above, I think we want to vote on a subtitle and not necessarily go with "and other programming challenges". \$\endgroup\$ – xnor May 5 at 18:06
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    \$\begingroup\$ There are now a number of newer answers suggesting this idea but with a different subtitle. It's worth considering the voting on those (which hasn't had time to accumulate yet) and also the comment discussions on them \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 6 at 13:36
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    \$\begingroup\$ @trichoplax As I commented on one of the other answers - if someone would like to take this discussion to a new question so that the votes may be more balanced, I think this is a good time for that. I can't guarantee that we'll go with this style but it looks good to me. What we really need to know is, if we do this, what should it say. I've got a personal favorite but I'm also... well, not a programmer. \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 6 at 22:23
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    \$\begingroup\$ @trichoplax Thanks! Looks good! Since you ask, my personal preference of the ones I've seen so far is to use "& coding challenges". It's not really long, which is nice. For me, "contests" implies a prize... you enter a contest to win something and here, all you're getting is votes. When we have a "contest" on the network, that's usually coupled with some physical prize, so "contests" seems like the wrong message. The real content here (from what I see) are challenges - even code golfing itself is a challenge - where the goal is to make the code as short as possible. \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 7 at 20:36
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    \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for sharing that view. More importantly than being a non-programmer view, it highlights how different a view can be from someone outside the PPCG community, which is important if we want to be approachable for other coders/golfers \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 7 at 20:42
42
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Code Golf

As in our previous discussion, I think we should shorten our name to Code Golf.

Design or not, Programming Puzzles & Code Golf is simply too long. We rarely ever spell it out, so we end up with a cryptic abbreviation outsiders don't understand. While Code Golf doesn't cover all of our topics, it's certainly more descriptive than PPCG. Even the full name does a rather poor job, as pure programming puzzles (opposed to programming challenges) are not completely on topic.

Branding is important too, so I don't think we should switch to an entirely different name. While Code Games and Code Sports do a better job describing our scope, Code Golf was the original name of our Area 51 proposal and has been the subdomain of our site—and the name other SE communities have been using to refer to us—for the past eight years.

Finally, I think Code Golf does a fine job hinting what our site is about, like Stack Overflow does for our Q&A that isn't just about stack overflows. Most of our challenges are code golf anyway, it's certainly more recognizable than Code Games and Code Sports, and anybody who interacts a bit with our site (by looking at the tags, for example) should be able to tell that we aren't Only Code Golf.

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    \$\begingroup\$ "and the name outsiders have been using to refer to us" – this is wrong, outsiders don't call this site "code golf" because that would be way too unclear (code golf is a game about shortening code, not a website). The name I most commonly see from outsiders for this site is "PPCG", which is at least unambiguous. If the site's renamed to just "Code Golf", the name used to refer to it externally would have to be something clunky like "Code Golf on StackExchange" (maybe abbreviated to CGSE, which is still clunkier than PPCG). I agree with a name change but this argument doesn't support it. \$\endgroup\$ – ais523's temporary account Apr 28 at 7:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ais523'stemporaryaccount Well, I either refer to this site as PPCG (site name's abbreviation) or CodeGolf.SE (short URL). But perhaps it's just me that I prefer to refer all SE sites by its short URL (and also, due to magic link for [codegolf.se] on comment/chat). I admit I never refer to any SE sites other than SO on external websites though. \$\endgroup\$ – Andrew T. Apr 28 at 11:34
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    \$\begingroup\$ @ais523'stemporaryaccount OK, that might be people from other SE sites rather than people in general. Outside of SE, neither PPCG nor Code Golf is going to be good enough. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis Apr 28 at 16:07
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm having trouble seeing why changing our branding would be a problem. It's not like we are a big corporation that would lose sales with a different logo. Given that the majority of our traffic comes from regulars and the HNQ, I don't see how changing our branding will have any impact on the site's activity. \$\endgroup\$ – Nathan Merrill Apr 29 at 5:39
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    \$\begingroup\$ What I don't like it is that it would have the same abbreviation as CG.SE. \$\endgroup\$ – flawr Apr 29 at 12:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ @flawr Code Golf doesn't need an abbreviation. That's the whole point. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis Apr 29 at 15:53
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Dennis Sure, but that will not keep people from abbreviating it anyways:) \$\endgroup\$ – flawr Apr 29 at 19:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ @flawr I'm sure the abbreviation will remain PPCG. It's what we're used to \$\endgroup\$ – mbomb007 Apr 29 at 22:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ To outsiders, we will have to be called Code Golf.SE (or something of the like), but that doesn't seem like a problem. \$\endgroup\$ – MilkyWay90 Apr 30 at 1:40
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    \$\begingroup\$ I really value the PP part of PPCG and there is really nowhere else in the SE network to pose (non code-golf) programming challenges. \$\endgroup\$ – Anush May 2 at 9:48
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Anush To me, a puzzle is something you either solve or you don't. We do competitions. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis May 2 at 20:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Dennis The word puzzle is maybe not that accurate but it is alliterative :). But my point was more that code golf is quite a niche interest compared to competitive coding which is very popular these days. It would be a shame if the niche took over entirely. \$\endgroup\$ – Anush May 2 at 20:26
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Dennis Also note that our homepage is the top result for "PPCG" on most major search engines. \$\endgroup\$ – wizzwizz4 May 12 at 14:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ @wizzwizz4 The order of Google's results depends on a lot of variables. In a clean browser, github.com/Meinersbur/ppcg and ppcg.gforge.inria.fr come first for me, while codegolf.stackexchange.com is the first hit for code golf. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis May 12 at 22:01
34
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Keep

Programming Puzzles & Code Golf

I would like to continue using the name we've had for the last few years because that is what we all are used to now and that is what we all refer to it. Using the abbreviation PPCG is now quite established and unambiguous, even if it maybe isn't the most descriptive name you could think of now after it has developed itself so much since the start of this SE site.

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    \$\begingroup\$ The abreviation is the biggest pro for me personally, even if the name were to change I would likely still refer to it as PPCG, and always will. \$\endgroup\$ – Skidsdev Apr 30 at 12:41
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    \$\begingroup\$ So... amusing (to me) story... I still refer to Software Engineering as "Programmers"... so... don't expect that changing the site implies that everyone will change what they call it. I don't even use SE.SE but I have an easier time remembering "Programmers" than "Software Engineering"... and that's ok. :D \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 7 at 20:39
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Code Golf & Challenges

(22 bytes)

I thinks this alternative is a brief solution to the problem many people take issue with. Yes, our current title is decidedly too long. This answer, however, maintains the essence of the old title without all the unnecessary characters.

For reference, following this paragraph is a list of the 10 longest official site names, obtained from this list. Under the new name, in terms of length, we'd be shorter than Gardening & Landscaping (23), same as Electrical Engineering (22), and longer than Computational Science (21). I think that would nestle our site quite neatly in the length hierarchy. After all, shaving 9 bytes can go a long way.

Software Quality Assurance & Testing (36)
Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair (34)
History of Science and Mathematics (34)
Programming Puzzles & Code Golf (31)
Geographic Information Systems (30)
Theoretical Computer Science (28)
Stack Overflow em Português (27)
Genealogy & Family History (26)
Computer Science Educators (26)
Science Fiction & Fantasy (25)

(Paste.ee containing the list, ordered by character length ascending and descending.)

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    \$\begingroup\$ I really like this. I think "Code challenges" are synonymous to "programming challenges" (so why bother with a longer title), and this way, a new user is focused on "golf & challenges" and not "code & programming", so it's immediately clear that this site is not a typical Q&A. \$\endgroup\$ – Sanchises Apr 29 at 10:07
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    \$\begingroup\$ Although I like some of the other answers as well (like Code Golf; Code Golf with subtitle; and keeping PPCG), this will have my top vote. I think it's a good thing to get rid of the 'programming' part in the title, so people won't come here thinking it's a Q&A. Although I like Peter's suggestion of using Code Golf & Contests as well, I prefer Challenges since we're using that term already on our SE. \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 1 at 7:59
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This is golfing trichoplax's subtitle, also as a specific proposal to ais523's idea to have a subtitle in the wordmark.

Code Golf

& coding contests
  • The "other" is omitted to make the text snappier. While, yes, technically code golf is a subset of coding contests, I think people will understand this and we don't need to spend words in the logo to address it.
  • The ampersand & is shorter than and. It's commonly used in site names, like "Science Fiction & Fantasy" and our current one.
  • The second "code" is changed to "coding" to avoid having the word "code" twice. I like how "coding contests" matches in rhythm and alliterates -- I think the whole title sounds nice when read.
  • The "Golf" is capitalized, as is in our current logo. The subtitle is not.
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    \$\begingroup\$ I much prefer this one to mine \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 6 at 12:27
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    \$\begingroup\$ Alternatively it's taking my answer and adding the word "coding" ;) \$\endgroup\$ – Peter Taylor May 7 at 14:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ "I think people will understand this and we [don't] need to spend words in the logo to address it." FTFY :D \$\endgroup\$ – Erik the Outgolfer May 7 at 18:12
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"Code Golf" is the largest group of questions here (91% of non-closed questions since 2017 according to xnor), but they are certainly not the only questions. So while codegolf makes sense for the subdomain, having a longer full site name makes a lot of sense.

In order to keep "Code Golf" primary, while keeping the overall name descriptive:

Code Golf and Programming Challenges

This would be a flip from the original name, but fit with the general "just call it Code Golf" concept.

For a logo, Code Golf could be BIG - like ENGLISH in English Language Learners with Programming Challenges smaller. See also the https://music.stackexchange.com/ logo.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Can you explain how your suggestion is different from this? \$\endgroup\$ – Adám Apr 29 at 4:42
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Adám Actually, it isn't much different, except for the word "other". I originally wrote up my idea as a comment, then 2 versions together as an Answer before the other answer. I then got a request to split my answer into 2 separate answers, which I did - but the "other" answer came in the interim. In reality - all very similar answers. \$\endgroup\$ – manassehkatz Apr 29 at 4:57
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A few answers use the word challenge, and although that word is used in meta quite a bit as more accurate than question it doesn't seem to me to have the right connotation. To me it connotes a difficult goal where what matters is achieving it at all. There is a word which connotes the aspect of competition between answers, and as a bonus is shorter: contest. So if we're going to abandon PPCG I propose:

Code Golf & Contests

Code Contests would be snappier, but I agree with the arguments for keeping golf in the name.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Or even Code Contests? To play devil's advocate, I am not really sure why we need Golf in the title. At the moment they happen to be a very popular type of code contest here but in a few years fashions may change but we will still be a code contest site. \$\endgroup\$ – Anush May 2 at 9:52
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Since other people are posting minor variations of existing answers, here is my take which is a combination of two previous answers:

Code Golf

& challenges

or alternatively:

Code Golf

& coding challenges

or

Code Golf

& other challenges

First of all, I think @ais523_permanent_community_wiki's suggestion of using a subtitle is great. We emphasize the term 'Code Golf' as our main title, and add a relevant sub-title below it. His answer already explains the reasoning behind it, which I can only agree with (and given the amount of upvotes in his answer, others agree with as well).

Second, I think we should get rid of the term 'programming', so new users are less likely to come to us thinking it's a Q&A. Although I've seen some answers use the term '& coding contests', I personally prefer @ConorO'Brien's answer with 'Code Golf & challenges.
The term 'challenges' is already a commonly accepted term in the PPCG community. When new users post a question that would belong on StackOverflow, we explain that PPCG is about programming challenges and we direct them to SO. When a new user posts a challenge that can be perfected, we direct them to the Sandbox of Proposed Challenges. When we search for the term 'challenge' we -currently- get 165 pages of results, whereas with the term 'contest' we -currently- only get 11 pages of results. The only time I hear the term 'contest' is with challenges, which are rather off-topic in our current meta (unless it's a challenge). If we look at the newest [popularity-contest] challenges and select the first which isn't [cops-and-robbers] nor [closed], it would be this one from the start of 2018.

So, although 'contests' isn't a bad term either, my preference would go to 'challenges' since it's already a commonly accepted term within our community.


EDIT: In addition, as correctly pointed out by @trichoplax in the comments below. The term 'contests' suggest a ranked system and a competition. Whereas the term 'challenge' suggests something to achieve. Although they are rather similar, I see one key differences: in 'contests' people compete against each other; whereas in 'challenges' one (or multiple people with each other) accomplishes an achievement.
If we were really competing against each other, people would also rather post a shorter answer themselves in the same language, instead of suggesting a golf on an existing answer.
I personally do these code-golf challenges for my own enjoyment, and whether I have the shortest answer in an 05AB1E answer, or the longest answer in a Java answer is irrelevant. Which is why, in combination that it already is a pretty common term within our community, I prefer the term 'challenges' over 'contests'.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Vote this comment if you think the subtitle should be '& challenges'. \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 6 at 8:49
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    \$\begingroup\$ Vote this comment if you think the subtitle should be '& coding challenges'. \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 6 at 8:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ Vote this comment if you think the subtitle should be '& other challenges'. \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 6 at 8:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ Before reading this I strongly preferred "contests" over "challenges". After reading this I'm somewhat swayed. I don't think it matters that "challenges" is currently more commonly used. I want us to use whichever fits better, and then get used to it over time. "Contests" better conveys ranked competition rather than just the challenge of completing something, but in some cases just completing the challenge is a significant achievement, and even in easier challenges the fact that it's a contest is often a secondary consideration, with a lot of cooperation between "contestants"... \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 6 at 12:35
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    \$\begingroup\$ "Contests better conveys ranked competition rather than just the challenge of completing something, but in some cases just completing the challenge is a significant achievement" Maybe this is also why I like the term Challenges more than Contests. Doing code-golf challenges is mostly for my enjoyment, and not really as a competition against others. Whether I have the shortest answer in 05AB1E or longest answer in Java, I simply like doing the proposed challenges. If we were really competing against each other, people would rather post a shorter answer than suggest golfs on an existing answer \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 6 at 13:30
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    \$\begingroup\$ Not only do I agree that "challenge" reflects the current spirit of the site, but I'd like to see it used in order to influence the future spirit of the site, rather than using "contest" and pushing the spirit of the site away from cooperation \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 6 at 13:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ On the "Code Golf & challenges" option, I shared the concern raised by manassehkatz that it would be parsed as "(Code Golf) & challenges" rather than "Code (Golf & challenges)", meaning we have generic non-coding challenges. But, it occurs to me that we could ask our designer to place the subtitle in a way that suggests the right hierarchy visually, such as by indenting it to line "challenges" up with "golf'. With this, I prefer this option. \$\endgroup\$ – xnor May 6 at 15:47
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    \$\begingroup\$ I'm skill liking "contests" over "challenges" despite several good points made for "challenges". The main distinction to me is that a challenge has a pre-determined goal to be achieved and it's over once it's reached, whereas a contest is about striving to be the best (i.e. shortest). Despite how our community understands "challenges", I think the outsiders wouldn't get quite the right meaning on first visit, and I want to optimize for that here. Also, outsiders may still misinterpret "challenges" to include homework ("this coding is challenging") as they do now with "programming puzzles". \$\endgroup\$ – xnor May 6 at 16:03
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    \$\begingroup\$ "The main distinction to me is that a challenge has a pre-determined goal to be achieved and it's over once it's reached, whereas a contest is about striving to be the best (i.e. shortest)." Hmm, very good point indeed, and I'm now at the 50-50 point where I don't mind either anymore. I still think 'challenges' is more well-known within the community, but since we are getting a different theme and title anyway, maybe we should also update some of our terms. And I was indeed kinda expecting that last sentence as counter-argument. I had already upvoted you, and either is fine at this point tbh \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 6 at 16:20
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    \$\begingroup\$ Considering the weirdness of voting, I think that this discussion may be better served as a new question with one text choice per answer. This will also get the votes more balanced. Would you mind starting it? I can't guarantee that we'll take this option but the sooner we can know what the preferred text will be the sooner we can get y'all a site design. :D \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 6 at 22:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Catija You mean three separated answers for the subtitles 'challenges', 'coding challenges' and 'other challenges', instead of the first three comments? If that's the case I will probably just edit the description to only mention 'coding challenges', since that comment got the most votes thus far and had my preference as well. \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 7 at 8:06
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    \$\begingroup\$ @KevinCruijssen I mean an actual new question. Right now, the top answer is combined with an example of this text but it may not be the best (it's probably too long)... so a question where the only goal is to discuss what the subtitle should be is what I'm thinking of. \$\endgroup\$ – Catija May 7 at 14:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Catija Ah ok, that makes sense. I'm currently a bit occupied with some other things, but will try to create that separated question after dinner tonight (in about 3-3.5 hours from now). \$\endgroup\$ – Kevin Cruijssen May 7 at 14:03
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    \$\begingroup\$ @KevinCruijssen Just to let you know I've now posted such a question - so you don't waste effort on it then find it's a duplicate. (I found your comment after already posting the new question.) \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 7 at 20:35
-1
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I agree with the answer suggesting "Code golf and a subtitle" but it's difficult to tell whether people are voting for that general concept, or for the specific example of a subtitle given there.

I'd like to see a subtitle but I'd prefer this one:

Code golf

and other code contests

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  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ I prefer this one too, but I think it would look better with Golf and without the second code. \$\endgroup\$ – Dennis May 5 at 15:16
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    \$\begingroup\$ I'd prefer this without the "other". \$\endgroup\$ – xnor May 5 at 18:03
  • \$\begingroup\$ I like both of your suggestions better than this one. I've upvoted your comments rather than editing the answer so voting can indicate preference between them \$\endgroup\$ – trichoplax May 6 at 12:24
-7
\$\begingroup\$

Competitive Programming

It's short, simple, descriptive, and encompasses all of what we do here.

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  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ To me, "competitive programming" is as much about speed as about the quality or style of the code. Code Golf et al is about quality/style, and due to the asynchronous nature of an internet based system like SE, not about speed except in the most limited sense. \$\endgroup\$ – manassehkatz Apr 30 at 2:50
-18
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Code Competitions and Golf

We need to mention "Code Golf" in the title because it makes up a large portion of all open questions (as manassehkatz quoted xnor). We still should address that we are okay with other programming competitions, since 9% is still a notable percentage, hence the name ("Code Competitions/Golf").

EDIT: edited the name to address manassehkatz's concern

EDIT: edited the name to address Jo King's concern.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Not sure why anyone would actively downvote it. But my personal feeling is that "& Competitions" is too generic - i.e., if it were clearly Code (Golf & Competitions) that would work but as listed it would read "Code Golf" and "Competitions" - i.e., "Competitions" would not be clear what kind of competitions. \$\endgroup\$ – manassehkatz Apr 28 at 22:43
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    \$\begingroup\$ I would argue that this title contains 'Code' and 'Golf', but not 'Code Golf' -- it could be interpreted as meaning 'Code Competitions' (which is a rather vague term) and 'Golf'. \$\endgroup\$ – Jonathan Frech Apr 30 at 7:48
-23
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Programming Puzzles

What if you don't know the rules of golf? How would you then interpret the term 'code golf'? For all you know, 'code golf' doesn't need to mean the shortest amount of bytes. If you're a match player (although rare to find in international tournaments), then winning is not determined by the number of strokes.

And even if you do, what does Python, for example, have to do with club hitting a golf ball? It's not immediately clear. Or are you coding a golfing video game?

What you are in fact doing is constructing programming to achieve a certain goal. But you do not necessarily take into consideration its actual usability. You're not coding software for your job, it's for fun. The term 'programming challenges' can be applicable to serious work requirements as well. It does not explain that you should probably not be using CJam for say, aircraft firmware.

A puzzle is defined as 'a game, toy, or problem designed to test ingenuity or knowledge', and it is applicable here, because it does take skill to win a

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    \$\begingroup\$ -1: I think a large majority of the 'good' (i.e., not spam) questions that are closed as off-topic come from the 'Programming Puzzles' title. A puzzle, to be solved with programming, is explicitly off-topic here. \$\endgroup\$ – Sanchises Apr 29 at 9:59
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Sanchises That can be listed in the heading bar. 'PPCG is a site for xyz' and explained there. \$\endgroup\$ – Flog Edoc Apr 29 at 10:02
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ I think that you could also use the term 'Puzzle' for a serious unsolved problem, albeit not a monumental one. \$\endgroup\$ – Jonathan Frech Apr 30 at 7:51
-26
\$\begingroup\$

Code Underflow

PROS:

  • Fixes the issue with just "Code Golf" being too ambiguous.
  • Every reason in the "Code Golf" answer (except "Code Golf was the original name of our Area 51 proposal and has been the subdomain of our site—and the name other SE communities have been using to refer to us—for the past eight years." (Dennis 1).)

CONS:

  • Code Underflow has (only) a vague reference to Code Golf.
  • It doesn't mention other programming puzzles.
  • (Integer) underflow suggests a very large positive number, and only ever occurs in an attempt to represent a negative number – this doesn't really make sense with regard to any challenge common on the site.

EDIT: I am making this answer community wiki so other users can update the pros/cons

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  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Is there another reason to choose this name other than to make a word play on StackOverflow? Why is word play listed under cons? \$\endgroup\$ – Jonathan Frech Apr 30 at 7:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ @JonathanFrech For your first question, any name that references code golf and cannot be mixed up with another term would work. For your second question, I forget. I'll remove that con \$\endgroup\$ – MilkyWay90 Apr 30 at 23:03
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Under "cons", you basically list exactly why this name makes no sense. Nice idea, but it makes, as stated, no sense at all. \$\endgroup\$ – Redwolf Programs May 3 at 16:53

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