# UPDATE: New site name chosen!

This site is now "Code Golf & Coding Challenges"

Thank you all so much for participating in this discussion!

Following Catija's comment on the site name meta question, what subtitle would work best for our site name?

The current highest voted answer on that meta question suggests the site name be Code Golf, with a subtitle in smaller text. I upvoted that answer because I like the idea of a short title followed by a subtitle, but the example subtitle given is not my first choice.

What alternatives are there? What are the reasons for choosing or avoiding them?

There are a number of alternative subtitle suggestions but they are scattered across late answers and comments on the previous question, so they have little visibility and it's difficult to judge community sentiment without this separate discussion.

Please put only one subtitle per answer so that it's clear what's being voted on.

• I've added two of the suggestions, as well as the original suggestion by aeis523. Feel free to add your own suggestion again, but I had the feeling you preferred @xnor's version more than your own? – Kevin Cruijssen May 7 '19 at 21:11
• Yes I like the newer ones much more so I won't repost mine – trichoplax May 7 '19 at 21:51
• Sorry about the feature/unfeature back and forth. I may have gotten the featured on meta box stuck. Trying to fix. – Catija May 8 '19 at 12:39
• Come for the code stay for the Dennis. - The subtext could be a slogan instead of an extension of "Code Golf". – Magic Octopus Urn May 20 '19 at 16:17
• Another good one might be Code Golf (Not Stack Overflow). – Magic Octopus Urn May 20 '19 at 16:23

In order to preserve our famous acronym PPCG, how about a supertitle instead of a subtitle?

Programming Puzzles &

# Code Golf

Yes, it has all the downsides of the current name, but at least it emphasises code golf, while avoiding an acronym change,

# Copy of my answer here

Since other people are posting minor variations of existing answers, here is my take which is a combination of two previous answers:

# Code Golf

& coding challenges

First of all, I think @ais523_permanent_community_wiki's suggestion of using a subtitle is great. We emphasize the term 'Code Golf' as our main title, and add a relevant sub-title below it. His answer already explains the reasoning behind it, which I can only agree with (and given the amount of upvotes on his answer, others agree with as well).

Second, I think we should get rid of the term 'programming', so new users are less likely to come to us thinking it's a Q&A. Although I've seen some answers use the term '& coding contests', I personally prefer @ConorO'Brien's answer with 'Code Golf & challenges.
The term 'challenges' is already a commonly accepted term in the PPCG community. When new users post a question that would belong on StackOverflow, we explain that PPCG is about programming challenges and we direct them to SO. When a new user posts a challenge that can be perfected, we direct them to the Sandbox of Proposed Challenges. When we search for the term 'challenge' we -currently- get 165 pages of results, whereas with the term 'contest' we -currently- only get 11 pages of results. The only time I hear the term 'contest' is with challenges, which are rather off-topic in our current meta (unless it's a challenge). If we look at the newest [popularity-contest] challenges and select the first which isn't [cops-and-robbers] nor [closed], it would be this one from the start of 2018.

So, although 'contests' isn't a bad term either, my preference would go to 'challenges' since it's already a commonly accepted term within our community.

EDIT: In addition, as correctly pointed out by @trichoplax in the comments below. The term 'contests' suggest a ranked system and a competition. Whereas the term 'challenge' suggests something to achieve. Although they are rather similar, I see one key differences: in 'contests' people compete against each other; whereas in 'challenges' one (or multiple people with each other) accomplishes an achievement.
If we were really competing against each other, people would also rather post a shorter answer themselves in the same language, instead of suggesting a golf on an existing answer.
I personally do these code-golf challenges for my own enjoyment, and whether I have the shortest answer in an 05AB1E answer, or the longest answer in a Java answer is irrelevant. Which is why, in combination that it already is a pretty common term within our community, I prefer the term 'challenges' over 'contests'.

EDIT 2: I will also quote's @Catija♦'s comment, with the preference of 'coding challenges' as well from a non-programming point of view:

Since you ask, my personal preference of the ones I've seen so far is to use "& coding challenges". It's not really long, which is nice. For me, "contests" implies a prize... you enter a contest to win something and here, all you're getting is votes. When we have a "contest" on the network, that's usually coupled with some physical prize, so "contests" seems like the wrong message. The real content here (from what I see) are challenges - even code golfing itself is a challenge - where the goal is to make the code as short as possible.

• I fear that challenges will encourage off-topic posts that ask the reader to figure out how to code something — i.e. without an objective winning criteria. contest implies that there is something measurable that participants are competing about. – Adám May 8 '19 at 15:37
• @Adám The thing to remember for all of these is that they won't be visible unless the user is already on the site. For every external view of this site, the site name will just be "Code Golf". I don't see "Coding challenges" being that different from "Programming puzzles"... "I'm working on this and I'm puzzled by why I can't get this to work - solve it for me." I recognize your concern but I doubt that it's likely to have an impact. – Catija May 8 '19 at 15:40
• @Adám to me challenge sounds more specific, but maybe my opinion is swayed by the existence of the popularity-contest tag – trichoplax May 8 '19 at 18:11
• "When new users post a question that would belong on StackOverflow, we explain that PPCG is about programming challenges and we direct them to SO". You might. I've been using the word contest in that type of comment for as long as I can remember, because it's less amenable to misunderstanding. – Peter Taylor May 8 '19 at 19:35
• "In 'contests' people compete against each other; whereas in 'challenges' one (or multiple people with each other) accomplishes an achievement." On that basis, the questions with accepted answers are contests rather than challenges... – Peter Taylor May 8 '19 at 19:37
• One thing I like about this answer, aside from the meaning being pretty much perfect (this is the second-clearest suggestion after mine, IMO, and so much shorter), is that CG&CC is actually a pretty good acronym (if somewhat hard to type). – ais523's temporary account May 9 '19 at 12:50
• I don't like the mismatch of having two different forms of "Code" in the title: Code and Coding. Why not Code Golf & Code Challenges, or Coding Golf & Coding Challenges? – Kodos Johnson May 14 '19 at 17:33
• @KodosJohnson Feel free to post them as separated answers. Code Golf & Code Challenges is indeed another option, although I've heard some other people preferred coding instead of 2x code, otherwise Code Golf & Challenges would perhaps be better. As for Coding Golf, I don't think many would like it here tbh. Code Golf is the term we have used ever since this stackexchange was created, so changing it to coding golf would sound a bit strange and unnatural. But feel free to post both yourself as separated answers and let the voting/comments decide. :) – Kevin Cruijssen May 14 '19 at 19:26

# @ais523's original suggestion here

My best idea so far is

# Code Golf

and other programming challenges

Admittedly, CGAOPC is pretty terrible as an acronym, so the site's title would still have to be "Code Golf", but I think that'd look fairly good on a wordmark and make it clear what the site is about. Code Golf works fine as a name within Stack Exchange; it's only outside it that the name has trouble referring to a particular site (just like, say, softwareengineering.stackexchange.com has "Software Engineering" as its wordmark, but is named "Software Engineering Stack Exchange" in its <title> as "Software Engineering" would be too ambiguous as the name of a website).

# Code Golf

and programming challenges

This halfway between the current two most-upvoted suggestions.

I prefer this over "code golf and other programming challenges" because it's more concise and, in my opinion, less awkward to say.

I prefer this over "code golf and coding challenges" because I think "programming" is more formal than "coding." I consider "coding" to be more of a slang word and think that "programming" is better in more official contexts, like the subtitle of this website. The word "programming" is also already in the website name, so it is less of a change in that regard.

• I actually like that "coding" sounds more slangy than "programming". It sounds more like a recreational site than a Q&A site. – xnor May 12 '19 at 20:15
• There's something about the repetition of "code" that offends my aesthetic sensibilities, but if nobody else has that issue then the informality of it definitely is a plus – Unrelated String May 18 '19 at 8:17

Just a variant of this

# Code Golf

& other challenges

since code and coding really is the same, there's room for other.

• Hm, now I think of it, code golf and other challenges implies that the other challenges are not of type=code, no? – Adám May 8 '19 at 13:21
• That's my concern with it... :) That's the benefit of explicitly saying "coding challenges" from my PoV and why that's my personal preference. – Catija May 8 '19 at 15:38

Just a variant of this

# Code Golf

& challenges

since code and coding really is the same.

I feel like I'm a bit late to suggest something, but anyways, how about..

# Code Golf

& code challenges

This is pretty much inspired by this answer but I personally didn't really like how there were two forms of the word Code, so instead of "coding challenges", we use "code challenges"

Another option was to do "Coding Golf and Coding Challenges" but Kevin Cruijssen said it would be weird to change "Code Golf" since we are used to it and I agree.

# Code Golf

& challenges

A variant of this that indents the subtitle to suggest that "code" applies to "challenges" as well. This avoids repeating the word "code"/"coding" like here.

(The "challenges" is meant to line up with "Golf" by their left edges; it may show differently in your browser. In any case, the layout is up to the designer, and anything visually suggesting the same hierarchy would work.)

• I like the idea, but I'd prefer that the subtitle also work when rendered without styling (such as when being referred to in chat or by people outside the site). – trichoplax May 8 '19 at 7:32
• But it's so short that we may also just use "Code Golf & Challenges" without a subtitle... – jimmy23013 May 8 '19 at 21:24
• @jimmy23013 Make that an answer so people can vote on it – Luis Mendo May 8 '19 at 22:06

Just a variant of this

# Code Golf

& contests

since code and coding really is the same.

# Code Golf

& competitive programming

Do we need the "&" or "and"? How about

# Code Golf

Programming Puzzles and Challenges

or

# Code Golf

Coding Puzzles and Challenges

Personally I prefer the first one but that's just my opinion.

• Although puzzles are technically on topic (unless I've missed a meta discussion), I can't remember the last time a question tagged programming-puzzle was well received. "Puzzles" is the one word I'd most like to see dropped from the name. – trichoplax May 27 '19 at 13:29
• I'm not completely against dropping the "&", but I think including it makes it more clear that the coding challenges can be of other types. Without it, it sounds like the subtitle is a description of code golf, which would be confusing for people who don't know the real meaning, and jarring for people who do – trichoplax May 27 '19 at 13:32

Just a variant of this

# Code Golf

& other contests

since code and coding really is the same, there's room to restore other.

# Code Golf

& programming puzzles

I don't see the word "puzzles" as a problem. I agree that "challenges" could be more suited to the site, but "puzzles" is close enough, and I have grown fond of our current name and would like something close to it.

I like my proposal more than this other one because a supertitle would look weird in my opinion.

The acronym would change from PPCG to CGPP, but hopefully they are similar enough to be recognizable. Besides, we seem to like anagrams around here...

• Agreed, but I am not sure about your avatar! ;) – roblogic May 23 '19 at 5:35
• @roblogic Hah, that one of yours is pretty nice too! – Luis Mendo May 23 '19 at 6:33

## @xnor's suggestion here

This is golfing trichoplax's subtitle, also as a specific proposal to ais523's idea to have a subtitle in the wordmark.

# Code Golf

& coding contests
• The "other" is omitted to make the text snappier. While, yes, technically code golf is a subset of coding contests, I think people will understand this and we don't need to spend words in the logo to address it.
• The ampersand & is shorter than and. It's commonly used in site names, like "Science Fiction & Fantasy" and our current one.
• The second "code" is changed to "coding" to avoid having the word "code" twice. I like how "coding contests" matches in rhythm and alliterates -- I think the whole title sounds nice when read.
• The "Golf" is capitalized, as is in our current logo. The subtitle is not.

As of about one week after OP was posted, there are three answers that are pretty much tied, but each with about half as many downvotes as they have upvotes:

# $$\\frac{+20}{-9}\$$ Code Golf

& coding challenges

Programming Puzzles &

# $$\\frac{+17}{-8}\$$ Code Golf

and other programming challenges

Programming Puzzles,

# Code Golf

& other coding challenges

I think it can fit. Consider how tall the big letters are in ELL's banner:
If we use vertically squished letters instead, maybe something like:

# Code Golf

& contests

A variant of this that indents the subtitle to suggest that "code" applies to "contests" as well. This avoids repeating the word "code"/"coding" like here.

(The "contests" is meant to line up with "Golf" by their left edges; it may show differently in your browser. In any case, the layout is up to the designer, and anything visually suggesting the same hierarchy would work.)