# Are visual programming languages. such as Grasshopper, accepted?

Obviously, Grasshopper cannot compete on bytes (files save to rather big binaries with a lot of redundant data). However, in something like a FizzBuzz challenge or a Hello World! show off, it is different enough to be notable.

Here is a reddit thread with Grasshopper FizzBuzz example. They're not "stdout" per se, but they produce the desired output.

• Absolutely! We often debate on how to score them, but we have historically allowed image programs (like piet) Jul 19 '16 at 21:47
• That said, AFAIK, Grasshopper isn't a image-based language. It looks like that is just a screenshot of the program. I bet if you saved a program, it'd be in a much more efficient storage medium. Jul 19 '16 at 21:51
• @NathanMerrill Well yeah, it is not an image language. It is placing components (read: functions) and connecting the outputs of some with the inputs of others. However, when saved to binaries, they're long. When saved to XML, they're ridiculous. This is a GitHub gist with FizzBuzz. The type of visual programming language I am talking about is this Jul 19 '16 at 21:54
• @NathanMerrill I don't intend to enter any competitions with GH but it is nice to show off some of its features. Jul 19 '16 at 21:56
• Right. We pretty much allow programming languages of any form or format. However, I'd bet that if you asked the community, we'd score the language based on the XML length. Jul 19 '16 at 21:56
• @NathanMerrill Surely we could come up with something more reasonable! We don't score minecraft submissions off of the size of the world on file. Jul 20 '16 at 0:01
• Well, Scratch is. Jul 20 '16 at 4:09
• Related, borderline dupe. Jul 20 '16 at 16:11
• @DrGreenEggsandIronMan, there's still an active debate about how to score Minecraft submissions, and the size of the file is several of the options (because there's more than one supported filetype, or something). Jul 20 '16 at 16:17
• @PeterTaylor Well, I prefer the idea of bytes === functionality. I suppose what we need if we were to go with this would be someone who understands this visual language well to put forward a crystal clear example with a score and explain it, and then to let the community vote on that. I suppose that's a little bit beyond the topic of this particular post, since this questions is just whether it's allowed, not how to score it. Jul 20 '16 at 16:27
• @DrGreenEggsandIronMan I could make a separate post on how to score it suggestion Jul 20 '16 at 16:31